FBI Selects Glock 9mm

I will start off by saying that I know as much as you do regarding the FBI’s decision to choose a Glock 9mm as the next standard service pistol. Also like many of you, I too had heard that the FBI’s RFP basically seemed written to give the SIG P320 the win.

FBI Shooting Glock

Now before we all start going off the deep end assuming certain things and ignoring others, let’s step back and look at the big picture.

There seems to be a lot of group-think that the FBI’s Glock pistol won’t have finger grooves. The logic behind this theory is simple, “Because it can’t. The RFP says so”. Uh huh. The same RFP that was certainly written that, “only the SIG P320 can win”?

Well the SIG didn’t win so why are we still using the official RFP as a basis for anything? I’m not.

FBI Agents Shoot Glock

FBI Agents Shoot Glock

Here is my opinion. I believe the FBI pistol is a GEN 4 G17/19. When I physically see otherwise, I’ll believe otherwise. And here is MY logic.

Glock GEN 4's FDE Lined Up for Zeroing.

Glock GEN 4’s FDE Lined Up for Zeroing.

I know bureaucracies. I know how they think. And I know how they justify their decisions. Do you really think that in just a few short months of testing, the FBI in one fell swoop will switch from 40 to 9mm, change Glock models, and then have that model tricked out with radical, custom design features, not tested in the open market, and not found on Glocks used by other agencies?

SIG P320

SIG P320 — Did not win the FBI contract besides being the odds on favorite. On paper anyway. 

You know. Take the Glock standard that won the contract and then…make it… non-standard? Seriously?

According to the internet, this new uber-Glock will supposedly have one or more of the following:

As of yet unknown GEN 5 frame.
No Finger Groves.
Ambi-controls.
Modular frame.
Different grip angle (Which means custom mags)
Custom rail.
Yadda, Yadda, Yadda…

Good luck with that. The gun-geek-fantasy bias is running rampant on the internet today. If there is a “FBI Model” Glock, it might have a few extra bits bolted on to it like specific sights, roll-marks, and magazines pads. But nothing the home gamer can’t already buy or already has.

Shooting Glock at FBI Academy

Shooting Glock at FBI Academy

If the FBI wanted a crazy new Glock with one or more of these custom features, they wouldn’t have gone with a Glock. They would have chosen the SIG!

Nobody chooses a Glock to be different or custom. And the FBI won’t be any different. They chose the same Glock as the rest of us: a GEN 4 Model 17/19. Black frame and night sights. Get over it.

The FBI is known for their radical, forward thinking, said no-one ever.

The FBI: A cutting edge corporate culture, said no-one ever.

 

 

 

Marky
www.tacticaltshrts.com
www.john1911.com
“Shooting Guns & Having Fun”

Marky Mark

Marky Mark

Writer at John1911.com
Writer for john1911.com. Co-Host of the John1911 Podcast. Video content provider for John1911-TV.

Areas of focus: Defense and National Security, Modern Light Weapons, Analysis of the Geo-political / Military Relationship in the Context of Strategic Goals.
Marky Mark

Latest posts by Marky Mark (see all)

  • Mikial

    So true!

    And frankly, IMHO they couldn’t have selected a better duty gun for their agents. Simple, effective, reliable, accurate and to a large extent, the most idiot proof gun out there if you don’t buy into all the ‘Glocks are so dangerous because they don’t have a safety’ BS.

    I’ve carried a Glock daily since around 2001, and I carried a Glock 17 on one of my contracts in Iraq. Great guns and I would take my Glock anywhere. The FBI isn’t going to demand a lot of changes from a company that already has a proven product in the global market.

    • Hey. Maybe I’m wrong? Maybe the FBI has gotten through to Gaston Glock and convinced him to make an American Glock. You know, all the egos, ambidextrous controls, 1911 grip angle….

      Yeah…I can’t keep a straight face writing that bullshit either. The FBI gets a G17/19 GEN 4 with a FBI prefix on the serial number.

      Ha!

      Marky

  • Randy Shadoe

    Let’s see, 357 magnum revolvers, custom Browning Hi Powers, Custom ParaOrdnace .45’s, SIG 226 .45s, 10mm S&Ws (that were never really fielded), assorted 9mms… The quest for the Holy Grail, err… Magic Bullet… err.. Ballistic Fig Leaf… Yada, yada, yada… The FBI has much to admire, but a federal bureaucracy is a federal bureaucracy. And didn’t they blow up their own ordinance lab once upon a time?

    • No FBI agent I know has ever admitted such a thing. Blown up lab? Oh…that’ll come in handy for some shit talking!

      Thanks!

      Gun: in the FBI’s defense, the 9mm HP technology has improved dramatically since the mid-80’s. So everyone is migrating back to it.

      Marky

      • Randy Shadoe

        You’ll get no argument from me about the efficacy of modern 9mm HP technology or the Glock. Actually HP, bullet, tech in general has improved asymptotically over the decades. It is just that the FBI often reminds me of my acquaintances who are in the “gun of the month club.” My sources relayed to me that the lab suffered a major fire/explosion due to mishandling some evidentiary ordinance about 20 years ago.

        • Mikial

          Interesting, but appropriate use of the word “asymptotically.” Not a word you usually hear outside of discussions on mathematics. Do you really think the 9mm round has a performance variable with a terminal value of infinity? 😉

          Don’t get me wrong, the vast majority of handguns around our house (and there are more than a few) are either 9mm or .45ACP. It’s a great round and very easy to shoot accurately, although I have to admit that I carry .45 and she is leaning toward swapping out her Beretta for her 1911. The woman is dead accurate with it.

          • Randy Shadoe

            I use the word with a bit of literary flourish. I am a grey beard. When I started shooting American LEOs all carried revolvers and the serious choices for combat auto pistols were basically 1911 Colts, Browning High Powers, perhaps a P38, and few exotics. Hollow point pistol ammunition jammed in these pistols without customization and when the pistol functioned the bullets usually failed to expand. Compared to those days,, while we don’t yet carry directed energy weapons, the improvements are spectacular IMHO.

          • Brennen Munro

            Something about those big bore .45’s, my wife is scary accurate with one too. Just one more reason to love her as much as I do!

            Munro

          • Mikial

            Agree completely.

            There’s nothing quite as cool as watching my sweetheart lean into that 1911 and shoot the center out of a standard FBI reduced silhouette. Nice to know that if I ever need back-up she’ll be close by and ready.

        • Brennen Munro

          The “gun of the month club”… I know a few of it’s members as well! I have even seen a few different “reviewers” of guns who seem to be card carrying members.

          I’m not sure if it was the FBI blowing up their own lab, or just something simular that was on TV, but this is there somewhere in the dusty part of my memories…

          Munro

          • Randy Shadoe

            It’s only MHO, but unless one is rolling is cash, a gun reviewer, or a gun “librarian,” money is better spent on ammo, practice and training. If you search the archives of certain niche publications the lab incident was made public.

          • I think the FBI isn’t stupid. They read the same data we do, train with the same people, and see the same debates. Bottom line: They issue a 40 Glock. If someone has issues with a 40 Glock, they get to work with a 9mm Glock for a while.

            I think this is just a big who-ha from 40 Glock to 9 Glock.

            Marky

  • Brennen Munro

    I have come to believe that this administration and any one of the current alphabit agencies will pretty much do as they please, and not have to answer to any RFP’s, laws. or regulations that may get in the way of them doing just that. For myself, I just do not enjoy shooting a Glock. I had one that I shot very well with, but it was not an experience that I enjoyed. When I decided on finding a new carry gun I knew what I was looking for, ergonomics, capacity, and quality build were some of the criteria that I wanted met. If the FBI has found those qualities and more with the Glock, then good for them. They are proven guns on both the battle field, and the street beat of law enforcement. I found those things in another manufacturer.

    I do have to laugh when the Glock fanboys start talking about how this will mean a “new” surper Glock. If the SEALs were buying off the shelf pistols, I am pretty sure that the FBI will be doing the same.. Sorry Glocksters, wah wah!

    Munro

    • Boom! That comment just happened.

      IMO, the Gen 4 Glock is the first one that was worth a damn out of the box.

      Marky

      • Mikial

        Can’t argue with that, as much as I like Glocks for their reliability. I have a couple of Gen 3 G21’s, one with a custom trigger and one with a stock trigger, and they are like two completely different guns.

    • RFP: civilians don’t seem to understand that many times, RFP’s are aspirational. It’s an attempt to see if there is a great leap in technology that the issuing agency has missed.

      Look at the SCAR rifles. Look at the FNX pistols. Look at the A5. Ultimately, they decided to deviate or abandon the RFP.

      If the FBI put out a proposal for a phase plasma rifle in the 40 watt range (terminator 1 reference), would they actually get something unseen by the market in the year 2016?

      I think not.

      Marky

    • Mikial

      You should try a Jericho sometime. I have an old Israeli police trade-in in 9mm and just got a brand new one in .45. Amazing guns . . . accurate, reliable and easy to shoot.

      PS: Marky, you were very correct about the weight of the steel frame Jericho. The 9mm with a polymer frame is pretty light, but the new .45 has a steel frame and it is as heavy as any 1911 Government Model I ever held.

      • Brennen Munro

        Shot a Jericho in Israel, and I found it to be pretty much a CZ clone. It is a good, solid gun, but I already had a CZ 75 P01. I went with H&K for my CCW guns. A P30, and a P30sk, both are set up exactly the same as for as controls go, so there is no fumbling with different set-ups when under pressure.

        I do know guys who are carrying the Jericho on the job today, and if they are willing to bet their life on it, I would be willing too as well. I just went with another approach. But you are correct Mikial, they are good guns!

        Munro

      • Yeah, in another life I gave one to a West Coast Marine. It was a 40. My congratulations for his commissioning. It’s what he wanted. And it was heavy.

        Marky

  • Stosh Ilford

    The flaw in your logic is that other manufacturers specifically asked the FBI questions in the official solicitation that were answered as part of the public record. There is even a picture of a Beretta pistol in Question 7 of amendment 1 of the solicitation with an official response by the FBI in regards to what they consider finger grooves. If the winning pistol has finger grooves, that opens up the award to protests.

    There is no way the winning Glock pistol will have finger grooves.

    If you think Glock would not cosmetically modify their pistol frame for the FBI, you misjudge the importance, prestige and monitory valve above and beyond the actual $85 million award. The pistols that Glock is going to sell to the FBI for $200ish each, will sell like hotcakes to civilians for $500ish. Not to mention all the other law enforcement agencies who will/may prematurely update to the new model because it wasn’t originally available.

    For all we know, the request submitted by the FBI was not designed to choose the Sig P320, but was designed to specifically encourage Glock to design an FBI model G17 and 19. What better cover to hide your desire for Glock to win the contract, then to initially point in another direction knowing Glock (wink wink) will modify its design. Plus is undercuts any other manufacturer protest, since Glock modified its gun to the FBI specs, meaning any other manufacturer could have modified it’s design as well, but chose not to.

    • Mikial

      Generally, when manufacturers submit a gun for consideration under an RFP, they have already produced a prototype to meet the specifications of the RFP in order to be on the short list. Beretta learned that when they tried to convince the Army they could just make some modifications to their current M9. Consequently, I think if the Glock submission was awarded the contract it was because the FBI accepted the submission as-is. There were a lot of specifications in the RFP that don’t really even apply to Glocks, such as ambidextrous controls since any prole can switch the magazine release in a few minutes and there aren’t any other controls.

      I could be mistaken, and it sure wouldn’t be the first time, but I think they’ll take them off the shelf. They work just fine for everyone else, and I would think the FBI learned their lesson after the .40 experience.

      • Two points: typically makers see exemptions (omit) to every single spec. And they request that the testing criteria be kept secret so as to not hurt the losers in the open market.

        You know: give them an “out” as to why the test was “rigged”.

        There ain’t nothing special about a Glock 9mm for the FBI. No way. No how.

        Trust me.

        Marky

    • We’ll see. They could just as easily choose Gen 3’s in 9mm. They currently have 9mm Glock officially as “crutch” guns for those who are having issues mastering the 40.

      You see, using your logic, the Army would have changed handguns twice in the last 6 years and rifles 3 times in the last decade.

      This isn’t my first rodeo.

      Marky

      • Stosh Ilford

        I’ll be back to say “I told you so.”